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Home > Ratification of the Constitution > Elliot's Debates > Volume 5 > Debates in the Congress of the Confederation, from November 4, 1782, to June 21, 1783; and from February 19 to April 25, 1787.

Wednesday, January 29.

Mr. FITZSIMMONS reminded Congress of the numerous inaccuracies and errors in the American column of the treaty with Holland, and proposed that a revision of it, as ratified, should take place, in order that some steps might be taken for redressing the evil. He added, that an accurate comparison of it with the treaty with France ought also to be made, for the purpose of seeing whether it consisted in all its parts with the latter. He desired the committee who had prepared the ratification to give some explanation on the subject to Congress.

[Note Mr. Hamilton told Mr. Madison, privately, that M. de Marbois, speaking of the treaty, asked him emphatically whether there were not some articles which required animadversion. Mr. H. did not, at the time, know what was alluded to. He now supposed the allusion to be to some article supposed to be inconsistent with the treaty with France; particularly the article referring to the select articles of the latter, instead of the whole; which article, Mr. Adams in formed Congress, had been satisfactory to the Duke de la Vauguyon.]

Mr. MADISON, as first on that committee, informed Congress, that the inaccuracies and errors, consisting of misspelling, foreign idioms, and foreign words, obscurity of the sense, &c., were attended to by the committee, and verbally noted to Congress when their report was under consideration; that the committee did not report in writing, as the task was disagreeable, and the faults were not conceived to be of sufficient weight to affect the ratification. He thought it would be improper to reconsider the act, as had been suggested, for the purpose of suspending it on that account or any other; but had no object on, if Congress were disposed, to instruct Mr. Adams to substitute, with the consent of the other party, a more correct counterpart in the American language. The subject was dropped, nobody seeming inclined to urge it.

On the motion of Mr. RUTLEDGE, and for the purpose of extending the discussion to particular objects of general revenue, Congress resolved itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of the most effectual means of restoring public credit; and the proposition relative to general revenue was referred to the committee. Mr. Carroll was elected into the chair, and the proposition taken up.

Mr. BLAND proposed to alter the words of the proposition, so as to make it read establishment of funds "on taxes or duties, to operate generally," &c. This was agreed to as a more correct phraseology. Mr. HAMILTON objected to it at first, supposing, through mistake, that it might exclude the back lands, which was a fund in contemplation of some gentlemen.

Mr. MADISON, having adverted to the jealousy of Mr. RUTLEDGE, of a latent scheme to fix a tax on land according to its quantity, moved that between the Words "generally" and "to operate" might be inserted the words "and in just proportion."

Mr. WILSON said he had no objection to this amendment, but that it might be referred to the taxes individually, and unnecessarily fetter Congress; since, if the taxes collectively should operate in just proportion, it would be sufficient. He instanced a land-tax and an impost on trade, the former of which might press hardest on the southern, and the latter on the eastern, but both together might distribute the burden pretty uniformly. From this consideration he moved that the words "on the whole" might be prefixed to the words "in just proportion." This amendment to the amendment of Mr. MADISON was seconded by Mr. BOUDINOT, and agreed to without opposition, as was afterwards the whole amendment.

Mr. WILSON, in order to leave the scheme open for the back lands as a fund for paying the public debts, moved that the proposition might be further altered so as to read, "indispensably necessary towards doing complete justice," &c. The motion was seconded by Mr. BOUDINOT, and passed without opposition.

The main proposition by Mr. WILSON, as thus amended, then passed without opposition, in the words following:—

"That it is the opinion of Congress that the establishment of permanent and adequate funds on taxes or duties, which shalt operate generally, and, on the whole, in just proportion, throughout the United States, is indispensably necessary towards doing complete justice to the public creditors, for restoring public credit, and for providing for the future exigencies of the war."

Mr. BLAND proposed, as the only expedient that could produce immediate relief to the public creditors, that Congress should, by a fixed resolution, appropriate to the payment of interest all the moneys which should arise from the requisitions on the states. He thought this would not only give relief to the public creditors, but, by throwing into circulation the stagnant securities, enliven the whole business of taxation. This proposition was not seconded.

Mr. WILSON proceeded to detail to Congress his ideas on the subject of a Continental revenue. He stated the internal debt, liquidated and unliquidated, at 21,000,000 dollars; the foreign debt at 8,000,000 dollars; the actual deficiency of 1782, at 4,000,000 dollars; the probable deficiency of 1783 at 4,000,000 dollars; making, in the whole, 37,000,000 dollars; which, in round numbers, and probably without exceeding the reality, may be called 40,000,000 dollars. The interest of this debt, at six per cent., 2,400,000 dollars; to which it will be prudent to add 600,000 dollars, which, if the war continues, will be needed, and in case of peace may be applied to a navy. An annual revenue of 3,000,000 of dollars, then, is the sum to be aimed at, and which ought to be under the management of Congress. One of the objects already mentioned from which this revenue was to be sought, was a poll-tax. This, he thought, was a very proper one, but unfortunately, the Constitution of Maryland, which forbids this tax, is an insuperable obstacle. Salt he thought a fit article to be taxed, as it is consumed in a small degree by all, and in great quantities by none. It had been found so convenient a subject of taxation, that among all nations which have a system of revenue it is made a material branch. In England, a considerable sum is raised from it. In France, it is swelled to the sum of 54,000,000 of livres. He thought it would be improper to levy this tax during the war, whilst the price would continue so high; but the necessary fall of price at the conclusion of it would render the tax less sensible to the people. The suspension of this particular tax during the war would not be inconvenient, as it might be set apart for the debt due to France, on which the interest would not be called for during the war. He computed the quantity of salt imported into the United States, annually, at 3,000,000 of bushels, and proposed a duty of one third of a dollar per bushel, which would yield 1,000,000 of dollars. This duty, he observed, would press hardest on the Eastern States, on account of the extraordinary consumption in the fisheries.

The next tax which he suggested was on land. One dollar on every hundred acres, according to the computation of the superintendent of finance, would produce 500,000 dollars. This computation, he was persuaded, might be doubled; since there could not be less than 100,000,000 of acres comprehended within the titles of individuals, which, at one dollar per hundred acres, yields 1,000,000 of dollars. This tax could not be deemed too high, and would bear heaviest, not on the industrious farmer, but on the great landholder. As the tax on salt would fall with most weight on the Eastern States, the equilibrium would be restored by this, which would be most felt by the Middle and Southern States.

The impost on trade was another source of revenue, which, although it might be proper to vary it somewhat, in order to remove particular objections, ought to be again and again urged upon the states by Congress. The office of finance has rated this at 500,000 dollars. He thought a peace would double it, in which case the sum of 3,000,000 would be made up. If these computations, however, should be found to be too high, there will still be other objects which would bear taxation. An excise, he said, had been mentioned. In general, this species of taxation was tyrannical and justly obnoxious, but in certain forms had been found consistent with the policy of the freest states. In Massachusetts, a state remarkably jealous of its liberty, an excise was not only admitted before, but continued since, the revolution. The same Was the case with Pennsylvania, also remarkable for its freedom. An excise, if so modified as not to offend the spirit of liberty, may be considered as an object of easy and equal revenue. Wine and imported spirits had borne a heavy excise in other countries, and might be adopted in ours. Coffee is another object which might be included. The amount of these three objects is uncertain, but materials for a satisfactory computation might be procured. These hints and remarks he acknowledged to be extremely imperfect, and that he had been ted to make them solely by a desire to contribute his mite towards such a system as would place the finances of the United States on an honorable and prosperous footing.

Mr. GORHAM observed, that the proposition of Mr. Bland, however salutary its tendency might be in the respect suggested, could never be admitted, because it would leave our army to starve, and all our affairs to stagnate, during its immediate operation. He objected to a duty on salt, as not only bearing too heavily on the stern States, but as giving a dangerous advantage to rivals in the fisheries. Salt, said, exported from England for the fisheries, is exempted particularly from duties. thought it would be best to confine our attention, for the present, to the impost on trade, which had been carried so far towards an accomplishment, and to remove the objections which had retarded it, by limiting the term of its continuance, leaving to the states the nomination of the collectors, and by making the appropriation of it there specific.

Mr. RUTLEDGE was also for confining our attention to the impost, and to get that before any further attempts were made. In order to succeed in getting it, however, he thought it ought to be asked in a new form. Few of the states had complied with the recommendation of Congress, literally. Georgia had not yet complied. Rhode Island had absolutely refused to comply at all. Virginia which at first complied but partially, has since rescinded even that partial compliance. After enumerating the several objections urged by the states against the scheme, he proposed, in order to remove mere, the following resolution, viz:-

"That it be earnestly recommended to the several states, to impose and levy a duty of five per cent., ad valorem, at the time and place of importation, on all goods, wares, and merchandises, of foreign growth and manufacture, which may be imported into the said states, respectively, except goods of the United States or any of them, and a like duty on all prizes and prize goods condemned in the court of admiralty of said states; that the money arising from such duties be paid into the Continental treasury, to be appropriated and applied to the payment of the interest, and to sink the principal, of the money which the United States have borrowed in Europe, and of what they may borrow; for discharging the arrears due to the army. and for the future support of the war, and to no other use or purpose whatsoever; that the said duties be continued for twenty-five years, unless the debts above mentioned be discharged in the mean time, in Which case, they shall cease and determine; that the money arising from the said duties, and paid by any state, be passed to the credit of such state on account of its quota of the debt of the United States."

The motion was seconded by Mr. LEE.

Mr. WOLCOTT opposed the motion, as unjust towards those states which, having few or no ports, receive their merchandise through the ports of others; repeating the observation that it is the consumer, and not the importer, who pays the duty. He again animadverted on the conduct of Virginia in first giving, and afterwards withdrawing, her assent to the impost recommended by Congress.

Mr. ELLSWORTH thought it wrong to couple any other objects with the post; that the states would give this, if any thing; and that, if a land tax or excise were combined with it, the whole scheme would fail. He thought, however, that some modification of the plan recommended by Congress would be necessary. He supposed, when the benefits of this Continental revenue should be experienced, it would incline the states to concur in making additions to it. He abetted the opposition of Mr. Wolcott to the motion of Mr. Rutledge, which proposed that each state should be credited for the duties collected within its ports; dwelt on the injustice of it; said that Connecticut, before the revolution, did not import one fiftieth, perhaps not one hundredth, part of the merchandise consumed Within it, and pronounced that such a plan would never be agreed to. He concurred in the expediency of new-modelling the scheme of the impost by defining the period of its. continuance; by leaving to the state the nomination, and to Congress the appointment, of collectors, or vice versa, and by a more determinate appropriation of the revenue. The first object to which it ought to be applied was, he thought, the foreign debt. This object claimed a preference, as well from the hope of facilitating further aids from that quarter as from the disputes in which a failure may embroil the United States. The prejudice against making a provision for foreign debts which should not include the domestic ones was, he thought, unjust, and might be satisfied by immediately requiring a tax, in discharge of which loan-office certificates should be receivable. State funds, for the domestic debts, would be proper for subsequent consideration. He added, as a further objection against crediting the states for the duties on trade respectively collected by them, that a mutual jealousy of injuring their trade by being foremost in imposing such a duty would prevent any from making a beginning.

Mr. WILLIAMSON said, that Mr. Rutledge’s motion, at the same time that it removed some objections, introduced such as would be much more fatal to the measure. He was sensible of the necessity of some alterations, particularly in its duration, and the appointment of the collectors. But the crediting the states, severally, for the amount of their collections, was so palpably unjust and injurious, that he thought candor required that it should not be persisted in. He was of opinion that the interest of the states which trade for others also required it, since such an abuse of the advantage possessed by them would compel the states for which they trade to overcome the obstacles of nature, and provide supplies for themselves. North Carolina, he said, would probably be supplied pretty much through Virginia, if the latter forbore to levy a tax on the former; but in case she did not forbear, the ports of North Carolina, which are nearly as deep as those of Holland, might, and probably would be substituted The profits drawn by the more commercial states, from the business they carry on for the others, were of themselves sufficient, and ought to satisfy them.

Mr. RAMSAY differed entirely from his colleague, Mr. Rutledge. He thought that, as the consumer pays the tax, the crediting the states collecting the impost unjust. North Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey, and Connecticut, would suffer by such a regulation, and would never agree to it.

Mr. BLAND was equally against the regulation. He thought it replete with injustice, and repugnant to every idea of finance. He observed, that this point had been fully canvassed, at the time when the impost was originally recommended by Congress, and finally exploded. He was, indeed, he said, opposed to the whole motion of Mr. Rutledge. Nothing would be a secure pledge to creditors that was not placed out of the control of the grantors. As long as it was in the power of the states to repeal their grants, in this respect, suspicions would prevail, and would prevent loans. Money ought to be appropriated by the states as it is by the Parliament of Great Britain. He proposed that the revenue to be solicited from the states should be irrevocable by them without the consent of Congress or of nine of the states. He disapproved of any determinate limitation to the continuance of the revenue, because the continuance of the debt could not be fixed, and that was the only rule that could be proper or satisfactory. He said he should adhere to these ideas in the face of the act of Virginia repealing her assent to the impost; that it was trifling with Congress to enable them to contract debts, and to withhold from them the means of fulfilling their contracts.

Mr. LEE said, he seconded the motion of Mr. Rutledge, because he thought it most likely to succeed; that he was persuaded the states would not concur in the impost on trade without a limitation of time affixed to it. With such a limitation, and the right of collection, he thought Virginia, Rhode Island, and the other states, probably would concur. The objection of his colleague, Mr. Bland, he conceived to be unfounded. No act of the states could be irrevocable, because, if so called, it might, notwithstanding, be repealed. But he thought there would be no danger of a repeal, observing that the national faith was all the security that was given in other countries, or that could be given. He was sensible that something was, of necessity, to be done in the present alarming crisis, and was willing to strike out the clause crediting the states for their respective collections of the revenue on trade, as it was supposed that it would impede the measure.

Mr. HAMILTON disliked every plan that made but partial provision for the public debts, as an inconsistent and dishonorable departure from the declaration made by Congress on that subject. He said, the domestic creditors would take the alarm at any distinctions unfavorable to their claims; that they would withhold their influence from any such measures recommended by Congress; and that it must be principally from their influence on their respective legislatures, that success could be expected to any application from Congress for a general revenue.


 

         
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